1 00:00:08,749 --> 00:00:11,588 I asked if you wanted one and you said no. 2 00:00:11,590 --> 00:00:13,470 - I didn't. - You did. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,598 - You did a kind of shrug. - I never heard you ask anything. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,920 Well, I did. 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,920 Well, you need to talk louder, Tony. Project. 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,118 Mm! 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,558 Cups of tea are nice, 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,600 but they're never nicer, are they... 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,800 than when you've got a biscuit to go with them. 10 00:00:40,908 --> 00:00:44,307 - You'd agree, wouldn't you? - I've always thought that. 11 00:00:44,309 --> 00:00:46,909 - There you go, Kyle. - Thanks, Vanessa. 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,840 I feel sorry for you, for both of you. 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,400 Your mouths must be very dry. 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,200 Would you like a biscuit, Tony? 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,720 Only if you make us a cup of tea first. 16 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,078 I'll do it for three. 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,478 - Three? - Three, up front. 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,560 Or I'm going nowhere. 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,318 Two biscuits, one up front, one on delivery. 20 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:14,879 How did you do so well out of this? 21 00:01:14,881 --> 00:01:16,280 That's the deal, Tony. 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,120 Take it or leave it. 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,704 They're bringing him up now. 24 00:01:30,706 --> 00:01:32,145 Aren't we meant to wait? 25 00:01:32,147 --> 00:01:34,427 She doesn't want to give him time to think. 26 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,840 What are you looking at? 27 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,040 He's talking to himself! 28 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,200 Here we go. 29 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,838 The time is 16:10 on Thursday the second of April. 30 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,598 Present, DCI Natalie Hobbs... 31 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,120 DS Jamie Reiss. 32 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:47,960 And... 33 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,560 Singh, Sandeep. 34 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,960 Zero-six, zero-four, eighty-two. 35 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,920 How was the trip over from... where is it now, Belmarsh? 36 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,200 You were in Brixton before, yes? 37 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,319 I have no intention of helping you with your inquiries. 38 00:04:16,321 --> 00:04:18,398 None whatsoever. 39 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:19,800 Whatever they may be. 40 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,958 But you know what they are, Sandeep. 41 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,360 You were told when you were arrested in your cell. 42 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,640 I heard what they said. I just don't know anything about it. 43 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,958 Remind me. 44 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,160 Prior to conviction, you were a successful businessman, weren't you? 45 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,560 Projects in Malaysia, Singapore, investment opportunities... 46 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,238 When you were first arrested in 2010 47 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,598 and the custody sergeant asked for your address, 48 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,518 you said you had "properties dotted around the south of England, 49 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,160 and different cars for different days of the week". 50 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,880 That's the kind of character we were dealing with at the time. 51 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,719 - But the woman you murdered... - Samantha West. 52 00:05:03,721 --> 00:05:05,279 Whose money you wanted, 53 00:05:05,281 --> 00:05:07,718 who said she would invest in one of your schemes, 54 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,159 but pulled out on the advice of her brother... 55 00:05:10,161 --> 00:05:12,464 She realized you weren't the business expert 56 00:05:12,466 --> 00:05:14,185 you claimed you were. 57 00:05:14,187 --> 00:05:15,306 No. 58 00:05:15,308 --> 00:05:17,788 - Which is why you killed her? - No. 59 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,638 No, I killed her 60 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,918 because she did not give me her money on the date 61 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,640 that she said she would, and that made me very angry. 62 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,080 Not because I was a bad businessman. 63 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,678 Well, at least your business reputation wasn't damaged. 64 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,158 What would you know about business? 65 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,160 Hmm? 66 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,680 What would you know about business? 67 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,318 About as much as you, by the sounds of things. 68 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,799 Your only remaining property now 69 00:05:47,801 --> 00:05:49,859 is a studio flat in central London, yes? 70 00:05:49,861 --> 00:05:50,900 No. 71 00:05:50,902 --> 00:05:54,502 Once again, no. Where did you even get that from? 72 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,120 She's talking about your cell. 73 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,238 This is not improving your chances of me answering your questions. 74 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,558 You're raking over old ground. And for no good reason. 75 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,358 - Well, hang on... - This has nothing to do with me. 76 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,320 Let us be the judge of that. 77 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,238 And even if you think it does, 78 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,759 let me remind you, 79 00:06:24,761 --> 00:06:27,358 I have no intention of answering your inquiries. 80 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,438 None whatsoever. 81 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,358 - Sandeep... - Whatever they may be. 82 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,360 For a man who says he won't talk... 83 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,240 The name Annabelle Ashcombe... 84 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,320 Does that mean anything to you? 85 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,078 Annabelle was a young entrepreneur from Colchester. 86 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,519 She went missing in September 2009. 87 00:06:54,521 --> 00:06:56,167 That's seven months prior 88 00:06:56,169 --> 00:06:59,001 to your arrest for the murder of Samantha West. 89 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,800 Not a case you're aware of, no? 90 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,718 Her parents are now divorced. 91 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,079 Mum got the house and still keeps 92 00:07:08,081 --> 00:07:09,878 Annabelle's bedroom just the way it was, 93 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,238 in case Annabelle decides to walk in through the door 94 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,280 as if the last 11 years never happened. 95 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,798 Part of that means she cleans the room 96 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,718 to stop it turning into some sort of dusty shrine, 97 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,918 and last week while she was doing this, 98 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,600 she found something she hadn't noticed before. 99 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,880 A disposable camera. 100 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Do you remember those? 101 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,413 The little wind-on cameras 102 00:07:32,415 --> 00:07:34,880 people used to leave on tables at weddings? 103 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,918 On that camera was an undeveloped photo 104 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,838 of Annabelle Ashcombe at just such a wedding, 105 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,440 the weekend before she went missing. 106 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,918 Not the last photo ever taken, but not far off. 107 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Upsetting for a mum to see, but... 108 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,520 also a nice thing to find. 109 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,238 And that would have been that, 110 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,758 had Annabelle's mum not spotted someone else in the photo. 111 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,760 A person you might recognize. 112 00:08:06,323 --> 00:08:09,523 A man later convicted of the murder of Samantha West. 113 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,438 And when we saw that we thought, "That's funny. 114 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,838 A murder victim and a murderer together in the same shot like that? 115 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,118 We should call Belmarsh, invite Sandeep Singh over for a chat... 116 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,800 or a business meeting, as he might prefer to call it". 117 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,718 That is you, isn't it? 118 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,721 - Where was this taken? - That wasn't the question. 119 00:08:48,723 --> 00:08:51,318 - At a wedding? - At a wedding in Maidenhead. 120 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,118 Never been to Maidenhead. 121 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,518 - Well, with resp... - Sorry, that's just a fact. 122 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,120 Well, we disagree. 123 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,400 It's almost as if, Sandeep, we've got a photograph to prove it. 124 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,160 That is you. 125 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,318 And that... 126 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,920 is Annabelle Ashcombe. 127 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,640 And six days later, after that was taken, she disappeared. 128 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,600 Don't forget. 129 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:21,560 Sorry? 130 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,200 To ask your question. 131 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,758 What are you asking me? 132 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,198 I'm asking how you explain that. 133 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,200 I can't. 134 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,958 - But you... - Next. 135 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,800 - But you knew Annabelle Ashcombe. - No. 136 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,440 - But you met her. - No. 137 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,358 - She's in the same photo. - Yes. 138 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,278 - With you next to her. - Behind her. 139 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,520 - You're with her. - She's facing the other way. 140 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,959 You weren't introduced? 141 00:09:51,961 --> 00:09:53,999 - I don't know if that's her. - Well, that is her. 142 00:09:54,001 --> 00:09:56,320 But I don't know that, do I? 143 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,638 I only know that's her because you keep telling me, 144 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,119 but I genuinely could not pick her out of a line-up. 145 00:10:02,121 --> 00:10:04,160 I wonder if she would say the same about you. 146 00:10:04,162 --> 00:10:05,879 She can't do anything about it now. 147 00:10:05,881 --> 00:10:07,918 No, she can't, and why is that? 148 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,120 Because you say that she's been murdered. 149 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,398 Which is terrible. 150 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,800 - You think murder's terrible? - Listen! 151 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:21,880 I do not sit in my cell feeling proud. 152 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,800 I regret what happened with Samantha West. 153 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,798 I live with the fact that I took the life of another 154 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,598 every single day. 155 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,600 - Sandeep... - But I only did that once! 156 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,559 And I do not deserve to be pinned 157 00:10:38,561 --> 00:10:41,198 to every single unsolved crime out there 158 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,118 because I fucked up on this one occasion! 159 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Yes? 160 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,838 Sit back in your chair for me, Sandeep. 161 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,118 There's a good chap. 162 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320 Should... should we get uniform in the room? 163 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:57,840 Only to stop her attacking him. 164 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,920 It might have been the Ogbonnas. 165 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,118 He's Nigerian. Public school type. 166 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,638 If that was the wedding, then yeah, I was there. On my own. 167 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:20,958 That's the one. 168 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,638 I remember that as being in Marlow. 169 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Marlow's not far from Maidenhead. 170 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,918 What day did she go missing? 171 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,358 - The following Friday. - What date is that? 172 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,118 That would be September fourth. 173 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,598 September fourth, 2008. 174 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Nine. 175 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:44,798 This was 2009? 176 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,599 A few months before you were arrested 177 00:11:46,601 --> 00:11:47,678 for the murder of Samantha West. 178 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:49,160 We've already said that. 179 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,560 In that case, I can help you. 180 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,360 I can help you with your inquiries. 181 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,040 It was not me. 182 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,280 And how did we suddenly work that one out? 183 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,958 Because... 184 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,078 I took a contract with Intrepid in 2009, 185 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,078 which I've already told you about 186 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,918 in my last interview, 2010. 187 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,958 I took a job as an Excursion Manager with Intrepid Cruises 188 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,000 for six weeks in the autumn of 2009. 189 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:27,919 Not because I have an interest in travel, 190 00:12:27,921 --> 00:12:29,292 but because cruise ships 191 00:12:29,294 --> 00:12:32,598 are filled with cash-rich 60-somethings who... 192 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,038 and I will level with you... are perfect potential investors. 193 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,319 I did the same thing a few years earlier 194 00:12:39,321 --> 00:12:42,520 and the dates were always the same. 195 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,598 Travel out to Miami on the August bank holiday, 196 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,478 do a two-day induction and... 197 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:51,600 off you go. 198 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,560 Miami, Cozumel... 199 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,798 Saint Kitts, Saint Thomas... 200 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,800 - Yeah. Bang on. - ... back to Miami. 201 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,198 Shall I get a number? 202 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,240 Yeah. 203 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560 They still run that route, I think. 204 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,240 And like the wedding... 205 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,720 they certainly took photos, too. 206 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,998 Interview suspended at 16:21. 207 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,198 The cruise is confirmed as leaving Miami on the second, 208 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,238 and by the time Annabelle goes missing on the fourth, 209 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,679 he's a million miles away, 210 00:13:51,681 --> 00:13:54,360 playing gin rummy, doing the Macarena. 211 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,720 And he was definitely on board? 212 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,000 Yeah, he's even in the big group photo that they do on deck. 213 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000 - So he's alibi-ed. - Yeah. 214 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,520 Were Annabelle Ashcombe's family told about the arrest? 215 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:13,958 No. 216 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,200 Ah, well... Nothing lost, eh? 217 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,920 It's not our fault he didn't do it. 218 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,120 Mm. 219 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,560 Do you want me to tell him? 220 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,240 - Mm-hmm. - Okay. 221 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,158 Right, the van from Belmarsh is still downstairs. 222 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,999 You need to give them two minutes' notice 223 00:14:43,001 --> 00:14:44,278 so they can bring it round. 224 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Okay? 225 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,238 So that's it? We just stop? 226 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,438 Well, what were you after? Some kind of conversational warm-down? 227 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,158 But the driver from Belmarsh isn't collecting me till six. 228 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,398 You've got me for another hour. 229 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,040 Don't need you for another hour. 230 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,280 What you told us checks out. 231 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,800 Conversation's over. 232 00:15:09,219 --> 00:15:11,939 Why? Was there something you wanted to add? 233 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,800 No, there was something I wanted to ask. 234 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Had I known who was responsible... 235 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,120 And had I been open to telling you... 236 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,160 What then? 237 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,080 What would it have been worth? 238 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,160 - Do you? - No. 239 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,720 But... 240 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,560 You have, sitting before you... 241 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,758 someone who has spent the last ten years 242 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,278 sharing cells and corridors 243 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,238 with some of the most dangerous men in the country. 244 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,640 And those men talk. 245 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:04,960 So there are crimes... 246 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,398 high-profile crimes... 247 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,318 high-profile, unsolved crimes, that I do know something about, 248 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,518 I can help you with. 249 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,080 And you have a one-hour window in which you can talk to me. 250 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,398 So, to go back to my... 251 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,840 original question... 252 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,120 What is it worth? 253 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,358 Well, why don't you tell us what the case is 254 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,239 and we'll decide whether it's high profile 255 00:16:37,241 --> 00:16:38,798 and whether or not we want your help. 256 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,800 Or... 257 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,838 if we are brainstorming here, 258 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,559 you name some of the highest-profile 259 00:16:47,561 --> 00:16:49,840 unsolved crimes you can think of, 260 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,880 and we'll see if it comes up. 261 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,960 How about... 262 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,240 Okay, then. 263 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,720 The guy who fired into the crowd at the, uh, Newcastle concert. 264 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,743 The man who killed the male sex workers 265 00:17:29,745 --> 00:17:31,000 in Birmingham last year? 266 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,280 Sorry. 267 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,158 What would you say, Tone? 268 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,078 I'd say he should hurry up and tell us himself. 269 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,598 Otherwise, we'll use the whole hour just doing this bit. 270 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,040 The missing boy. 271 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,680 Alfie. 272 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,320 Alfie... 273 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680 Alfie Ince. That's it. 274 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,160 Alfie Ince. 275 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,878 Shut up! 276 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,680 That would be of interest, yes? 277 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,600 Considered high profile? 278 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,398 Enough that, if I told you what happened, 279 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,078 I may be able to negotiate a reduction in my sentence? 280 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,880 You are joking, aren't you? 281 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,358 This has got to be bullshit. 282 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,592 Well, we'd need to check, but, um... 283 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,080 ... in theory it's not impossible. 284 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,080 Good. 285 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,238 So with, what, 55 minutes left, 286 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,800 let's find a way to do business. 287 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Get DCS Miller on the line. 288 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Tell her we need a prosecutor. 289 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,798 - CPS. - We're calling them now. 290 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,480 Oh, God. 291 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,200 - What if he's lying? - But what if he's not? 292 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,918 - Got to be nonsense. - But what if it's not? 293 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,438 It's one of the biggest unsolved cases in the country. 294 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,198 No, I know, I know. 295 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,038 Wait. 296 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,878 Paul Ottager. He worked the Alfie Ince case, didn't he? 297 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:35,939 - Did he? - Yes. 298 00:19:35,941 --> 00:19:38,518 We were in the pub, he was telling us all about it. 299 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,878 - Not the investigation, the case review. - Guv... 300 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,238 If we can get Paul to sit in, he can help steer this. 301 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,440 Guv, it wasn't Paul Ottager that worked the Alfie Ince case. 302 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,958 - The CPS is sending Donna Swift. - Oh... 303 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,279 Ten minutes away and not happy 304 00:19:53,281 --> 00:19:55,320 about missing a leaving do at Wahaca. 305 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,440 Hey, where are you? 306 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,438 It's a two-stage process. 307 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,478 First, a scoping interview 308 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,252 in which Mr. Singh will give us 309 00:20:25,254 --> 00:20:27,158 whatever information he claims to have, 310 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,438 then a debrief. 311 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,278 That's then written up, 312 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,318 signed by you, signed by us, signed by the SIO, 313 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,838 to confirm the information is sufficiently helpful. 314 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,918 Then that's all put before a judge, 315 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,160 who's the only person who can approve the reduction of the term. 316 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,000 Can we guarantee the reduction in the sentence in advance? 317 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,278 Not without knowing the quality of the information. 318 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,358 - No. No, you're right. But... - It would be foolish. 319 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:59,360 Sure. But if we made that a condition... 320 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,360 Provided the information is of value... 321 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,200 We can certainly look into it. 322 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,680 Thank you. 323 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,800 Could we look into it now? 324 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:22,480 We're in a hurry, I can tell. 325 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,518 What is the case that Mr. Singh is looking to help us with today? 326 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,720 Alfie Ince. 327 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,480 - As in... - As in, Alfie Ince. 328 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,280 He can help with that? 329 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,560 He says he can, yeah. 330 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,998 The prosecutor's working to see if she cannot guarantee 331 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,760 a reduction in your sentence. 332 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,137 - How long will that take? - Five or ten minutes. 333 00:21:53,139 --> 00:21:54,799 That won't leave us much time. 334 00:21:54,801 --> 00:21:56,798 There's a lot I've got to tell you. 335 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,760 But this deadline of yours, it's not real, is it? 336 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,518 We can talk again tomorrow. 337 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,520 You could. I won't. 338 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,839 So you won't want to discuss 339 00:22:09,841 --> 00:22:12,238 a reduction in your sentence tomorrow? 340 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,518 I'm giving you a one-hour window, less than that now... 341 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,520 to guarantee me a reduction in my sentence. 342 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,758 Do that and I will tell you what happened to Alfie Ince. 343 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Fail, and my offer to help is retracted. 344 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,560 That is the line that I'm taking. 345 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,358 And I'm taking it because putting you on the spot like this 346 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,520 gives me a better chance of a bigger reduction. 347 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,038 Now you may or may not choose 348 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,160 to believe that deadline is real. 349 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:44,400 That's up to you. 350 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,280 That's on your conscience. 351 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,278 You are the ones who will have to tell Alfie Ince's parents 352 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,160 you decided to not take me seriously. 353 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,960 And in answer to your next question... 354 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,678 I want four years taken off. 355 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,400 From a 14-year bid? 356 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,998 Of which you've already served ten. 357 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,918 Meaning you'd barely go back to Belmarsh at all. 358 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,518 Only to collect some of my stuff. 359 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,598 Is four years even doable? 360 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,000 It's right at the top end. 361 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,238 Done his homework, that's for sure. 362 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,160 Gavin? Gavin, can you hear me? 363 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,320 He was always going to bring this up, wasn't he? 364 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,080 And there I was, not wanting to give him time to think. 365 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,440 Okay. 366 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,518 But there can be no further requests. 367 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,960 We can't have you increasing your demands as we go. 368 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,920 Four years. 369 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,638 That is the price. 370 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,640 - That is the deal. - Nothing else? 371 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Well, maybe a cup of tea. 372 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,118 Oh, and... a biscuit, 373 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:10,400 if you have one. 374 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,918 But if I can stick a piece of paper in front of him, 375 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,760 something in principle, I've got a feeling that might... 376 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,480 Yes, I know. 377 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,240 Yes, I realize, but Gavin, this is Alfie Ince. 378 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,398 Is that for me? 379 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,278 Hugo worked the Alfie Ince case review back in 2015. 380 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,000 He knows it better than any of us. 381 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,038 And you remember it? 382 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,318 Yes, ma'am. 383 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,720 Then I want you straight in. 384 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,120 Yes, ma'am. 385 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,318 Twenty-nine minutes to go. 386 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,638 - Says who? - Says him. 387 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,880 And we've decided to take him seriously. 388 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,478 The recording is yet to start? 389 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,120 Tony wanted to wait for you. 390 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,720 You know, I was thinking about this on my way over. 391 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,440 I should use all this to my advantage. 392 00:25:50,439 --> 00:25:52,119 Tell you I'm not setting foot in that room 393 00:25:52,121 --> 00:25:54,000 unless you let me back in here. 394 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,998 Reinstate me. 395 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,599 You were never going to try that, Hugo. 396 00:25:59,601 --> 00:26:00,958 You're too good a man. 397 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,720 And a rubbish negotiator. 398 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,798 From the CPS. 399 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,120 For your colleague. 400 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,560 That should get him talking. 401 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,640 Okay, let's go. 402 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,158 Interview starts at 17:42. 403 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,120 Present in the room, Detective Inspector Tony Myerscough. 404 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,760 Hugo Duffy. And? 405 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,640 Singh, Sandeep, 06-04-82. 406 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,958 The Crown Prosecution Service's way of saying 407 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,760 they'll recommend a four-year reduction to your sentence. 408 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,080 Provided what I tell you is any good, yes? 409 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,558 What happened, where he is... 410 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,358 - Whether he's dead or alive. - No, he's not alive. 411 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,360 He was dead within hours of being thrown into the van. 412 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,318 But we're getting ahead of ourselves. 413 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,958 We begin at the beginning. 414 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:17,440 He was right. 415 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,080 The chap before you. 416 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,318 I was in Brixton before Belmarsh, 417 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,640 2010, somewhere around there. 418 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,718 First time being locked in a cell. 419 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,920 Nothing more terrifying. 420 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,000 Nothing, I promise you. 421 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,600 When they lock that door... 422 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,200 and the lights go out... 423 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,558 and all you're left with 424 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,878 are the memories of the actions 425 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,240 that brought you there in the first place... 426 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,240 It's haunting. 427 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,120 And the only guy... 428 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,440 more terrified than me 429 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,198 was the guy... 430 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,720 a few cells down. 431 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Turns out he's a high-end car thief. 432 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,838 The kind of cars that go missing on Bond Street one day, 433 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,318 and end up in Bulgaria the next. 434 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,878 I start thinking, 435 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,278 it might be worth getting closer to this guy 436 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,878 for business reasons, because, you know, Bulgaria... 437 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,918 Macedonia... 438 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,798 all those countries around there are full of potential investors. 439 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,958 And, if he can introduce me, 440 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,078 I could make it worth his while, blah, blah, blah. 441 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,080 Anyway, we're slowly making plans. 442 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,800 And once I have his trust... 443 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,918 he starts telling me 444 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,958 that this route to Bulgaria 445 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,920 is used for more than just cars. 446 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,078 - Alcohol? - Alcohol. 447 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,598 - People? - Yes. 448 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,920 - Girls, boys... - Yes, that's it. 449 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,918 Alfie Ince. 450 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,200 - That's what I'm coming to. - So he did do it? 451 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,502 That's what I'm telling you. 452 00:30:10,504 --> 00:30:13,638 That he trafficked Alfie out of the UK? 453 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,120 For 25 grand. 454 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,720 That's what I thought. 455 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,880 We need a name. 456 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,159 But on the ferry over, 457 00:30:31,161 --> 00:30:33,878 he said that Alfie tried to get out. 458 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,078 That Alfie climbed into the front of the van 459 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,159 and tried to kick through the windscreen 460 00:30:39,161 --> 00:30:41,240 and had to be subdued. 461 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,040 That's how it happened. 462 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,560 Screaming and shouting. 463 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,398 He'd have given the whole thing away, 464 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,040 the whole system, supply line, had he not been subdued. 465 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,080 That's how he ended up killing him. 466 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,758 And his name? 467 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,478 Burying him in some national park, uh... 468 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,880 Near, what did he say? Uh, Arnhem. 469 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,680 All these details, they're nothing without a name. 470 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,600 John Brian Buchanan. 471 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,038 He lives at The Ridge, Emlin Lane, near Loughton. 472 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,000 Which means Epping Forest is his patch. 473 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,320 And what? You just happen to know his full address off by heart? 474 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,278 I do. 475 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,758 It was the address we were to use to set up a business. 476 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,318 It was to be our base. 477 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,640 A company doing what? 478 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,718 No comment. 479 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,320 Something illegal, then. 480 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,958 Physical laundering. 481 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,560 The company was going to make money by moving money. 482 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,910 All right? That was the idea. 483 00:32:18,912 --> 00:32:22,878 Illegal if it had started, but we didn't, so you're fine. 484 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,958 We stopped once I found out that, uh... 485 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,880 Buchanan had branched into something that was... 486 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,960 unacceptable to me, personally. 487 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,918 He's right, CPS records have Buchanan charged for smuggling, 488 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,360 sexual offenses... 489 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,560 All manner of stuff. 490 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,958 I'm no angel, 491 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880 but it doesn't make what he did any less abhorrent. 492 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,038 That's why I'm telling you all of this. 493 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,078 Is that right? 494 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,760 I'm giving you all the information you need for Alfie. 495 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:06,600 Really? 496 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,599 And it feels like you're attacking me for it. 497 00:33:13,601 --> 00:33:14,880 Is that your role here? 498 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,720 I don't have a role here, Sandeep. Not anymore. 499 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,397 I'm just here because I promised his family 500 00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:23,878 I'd do everything I could. 501 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,278 So when I heard you were here talking about this, 502 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,560 I became a bit like the guys in Brixton... 503 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,720 Keen to pay you a visit. 504 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,360 Did he live alone? 505 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,398 Who? 506 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,400 Buchanan. 507 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,998 He was in prison. 508 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,318 But the house in Emlin Lane where you were going to base this... 509 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,360 business. 510 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,040 Did he live there alone? 511 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,798 So why not do it somewhere more private? 512 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,520 - There was nowhere more private. - No? 513 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,680 It was the only place we had. 514 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,318 No, no. You're forgetting, Sandeep, you're a man of property. 515 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,520 Houses dotted around the south of England. 516 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,079 Now, I don't remember addresses off by heart, 517 00:34:09,081 --> 00:34:10,520 not in the way you do. 518 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,960 In a way, that, to me, seems a little... 519 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,240 over-prepared. 520 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,758 But looking back at the old Hugo Filing System, 521 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,320 I did come across... 522 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,480 Ash Lane. 523 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,600 Two, Ash Lane. 524 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,600 It's a little cottage of yours. 525 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,280 I said to my guv at the time, when we were doing the review, 526 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,039 "Let's go down to Belmarsh, see what Sandeep Singh has got to say. 527 00:34:39,041 --> 00:34:41,439 After all, we've got a convicted murderer 528 00:34:41,441 --> 00:34:44,558 living in Ash Lane in Thornwood. 529 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,678 That's only 200 yards from where Alfie Ince was at the time". 530 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,478 - That's not true. - What's not true? 531 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,119 Alfie Ince is from Loughton. 532 00:34:53,121 --> 00:34:54,878 Not Thornwood. That is well documented. 533 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,518 It is, but Sandeep, this was the summer holidays 534 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,240 and he was with his nan that day. 535 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,880 Who lives in Thornwood. 536 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:04,760 Near you. 537 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,318 That was the link here, you see? 538 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,999 That's why I came running down here 539 00:35:12,001 --> 00:35:14,378 like my career depended on it. 540 00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:16,199 And that's what had me interested back then, 541 00:35:16,201 --> 00:35:17,560 but my guv at the time... 542 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,160 He said not to bother with you. 543 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,160 Because you, in his words... 544 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,880 "... were the wrong kind of psycho". 545 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,440 Not a nonce. 546 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,478 Just a narcissist. 547 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,160 So we never went looking for Alfie at your place. 548 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,680 Not then, anyway. 549 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:44,960 But now, 550 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,398 we are checking. 551 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,619 Are you? 552 00:35:48,621 --> 00:35:49,656 No. 553 00:35:49,658 --> 00:35:52,437 Now, we really have sent scene-of-crime officers up there. 554 00:35:52,439 --> 00:35:55,838 Number Two, Ash Lane, Thornwood. 555 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,480 See, I remembered it that time. 556 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,318 They're gonna have a look around, 557 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,678 have a dig about, 558 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,680 make sure Alfie isn't there after all. 559 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,400 You're a businessman, yeah? 560 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,800 So while you think on that, let us make you an offer. 561 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,600 So, how about this? 562 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,678 If they find a body, 563 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,719 instead of a 4 year reduction in your sentence, 564 00:36:28,721 --> 00:36:30,198 you'll now be getting another 14. 565 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,680 That makes sense, yeah? 566 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,878 Whether you did this alone or with Buchanan, 567 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,200 you'll now be serving two life sentences. 568 00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,478 Don't need a spreadsheet to work that one out. 569 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,958 However, if you cooperate, 570 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,118 if you are contrite, and you genuinely try to help, 571 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,558 a judge may well look favorably on that. 572 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,200 It's what's known in your world as cutting your losses. 573 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,358 So save us all time, 574 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,200 and tell us where to dig, Sandeep. 575 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,714 Tell us what they'll find, 576 00:37:11,716 --> 00:37:15,280 and whereabouts in your back garden they will find it. 577 00:37:21,379 --> 00:37:22,919 I'm going to have to hurry you, mate. 578 00:37:22,921 --> 00:37:25,078 This offer only stands till 6:00 p.m. 579 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,758 Yeah? Why six? 580 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,439 Because the SOCO team's on its way. 581 00:37:29,441 --> 00:37:31,440 And because that's the line we're taking. 582 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,758 Tell us what they'll find, Sandeep, when they get there. 583 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,200 With all that scanning equipment and all that. 584 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,560 Your garden, your patio, under your floorboards... 585 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,080 When they start looking. 586 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,680 Forget the big mirror. 587 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,440 The microphones, and anybody else who might be watching. 588 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,760 Just tell us the truth. 589 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,520 What will they find? 590 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,520 What will they find, Sandeep? 591 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,640 Who will they find? 592 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,440 Make it better for the family. 593 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,760 Tell us now, Sandeep. 594 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,238 They'll find Annabelle Ashcombe. 595 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,080 She told me, at the wedding, 596 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,400 she could invest half a million. 597 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,120 Half a million. 598 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,920 That meant I decided to not take the job on the cruise. 599 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,998 She comes to see me a few days after, 600 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,200 at the cottage. 601 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,320 Says she's changed her mind. 602 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,920 Meaning I've lost both the investment... 603 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,360 and the job. 604 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,960 And that's when I lost it. 605 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,078 I asked her if she'd like to see the garden. 606 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,320 I don't know why. 607 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,360 I do know why. 608 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,720 And while she's standing there... 609 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,600 just like in the photo... 610 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,840 facing the other way... 611 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,400 I hit her with a pole. 612 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,840 Once. 613 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,400 That's all it needed. 614 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,400 And that is when the football landed in the garden. 615 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:08,560 Sorry? 616 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,920 He comes in a few seconds later to fetch it. 617 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,160 Alfie? 618 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:26,720 I say she's poorly. 619 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,640 Had had a fall. 620 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,438 I ask him to help me. 621 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,918 To check, see if she's still breathing. 622 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,880 And as he's leaning over, back comes the pole. 623 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,960 I went out to Florida... 624 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,038 but only got on the boat in time for the photo at the end. 625 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,478 But I made sure I was in it... I made sure I was in it... 626 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,480 I made sure I was in it! 627 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,880 They'll see a cross in the grass, your... 628 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,680 scene-of-crime people. 629 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,040 Where the bird table used to be. 630 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,600 Tell them to dig around there. 631 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,598 Right. I'll notify the SIO. 632 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,198 I'll call Belmarsh, say we're hanging onto him for now. 633 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,280 On it, Guv. 634 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,958 So the prosecutor's gone, and it's drinks at the Rose. 635 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,038 - Right. That's where we're off to, is it? - That's the rumor. 636 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,718 Except Jamie's not coming, because of all the paperwork, 637 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:07,238 and Vanessa's giving Kyle a lift home. 638 00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,478 Oh, so it's just you, me and Hugo. 639 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,359 Well, Hugo can't. 640 00:44:11,361 --> 00:44:13,280 He can have a soft drink. 641 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,240 He needs an early night. Starting a new job in the morning. 642 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,720 So, still worth it, then? 643 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:26,800 What do you mean? 644 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,240 How many clues do you need? 645 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,758 Interview terminated at 18:13. 646 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,120 Yes!